3D Objects Creation: Xref to library - a bug?

[Haider of Sweden]

I am creating objects by using "XRef to library" - usually I use "Merge into scene".

What I thought it would do is that it would Xref the tree instead of actually merging it.
However, it did not differ in any way. In other words, the tree was merged in, just like when I went for "Merge into scene"

Am I missing something or is the Xref broken?

[Michal Karmazín]

Hi,

Upon our tests with XRef objects all works as supposed in both modes - Merge into scene / XRef to library. Let me mention, that some of libraries has in the header of the index.xml file xref="0", which disables the XRef to library option, but that shouldn't be your case.

Would you mind to specify your configuration (which 3ds max / Forest Pack / renderer releases are you using)? Thanks in advance.

Best regadrs,

[Haider of Sweden]

Hi Michal!

I use the latest Forest Pack, 3dsMax 2016 and Mental Ray.

However, it is precisely as you say; the xref-tag was missing in some items, while some had them disabled.

Forest Library:
Flowers & Grass: missing
Presets: all turned off - how comes you decided to turn off some of the libraries?

Xfrog: all missing - who is responsible of the Xfrog library? The library is available on your site to download.

[Michal Karmazín]

Hi,

A time ago we've decided to disable XRef for all bundled presets. There is a good reason for that: in this way we can modify these presets on Forest updates (i.e. optimize them, update materials, etc), while keeping the compatibility with existing scenes. If not, a same scene would look differently depending of the Forest version used.

Anyway, you can enable the XRef option easily, editing the index.xml (in the library folder - by default under C:\Program Files (x86)\Itoo Software\Forest Pack Pro\lib\Presets) and setting xref="1" in the first line (it is set to 0 by default). Instead of modifying default libraries, I would suggest you create a copy in the User's Libraries branch and edit it. If not, all changes will be overwritten by the Forest updates.

If the index.xml file doesn't have the xref="0" set, the XRef to library option is allowed.

Best regards,

[Haider of Sweden]

Hello and thank you for the explanation. It is reasonable to keep it the way it is and let the user choose to change the xref value or not.

However, who is in charge for the Xfrog library (which I downloaded from the Itoo site)?
Those should have xref=1 I believe


Last but not least. if the xref-value is completely missing (like for the Flowers and Grass), then "XRef to library" should be grayed out, indicating that this is not an option right now.
This leaves it to the user to go in and edit things by himself (and discover the value was totally missing).
But as long as the tool doesn't indicate the lack of an xref-value by giving the user the "Merge into scene / XRef to library" choice, the user won't know what's wrong.

Also, I would like to point out that you mention the xref="1" parameter in the documentation. If the value is missing, one can not even guess it should be there.

[Michal Karmazín]

Hi,

You're welcome. As mentioned previously: "If the index.xml file doesn't have the xref="0" set, the XRef to library option is allowed."

There's no need to add the xref="1" to any library, which will allow references as without being xref="0" specified, it's behaving like having set xref="1".

All plant libraries we actually sell on our website are done by third-party companies - like XfrogPlants by Xfrog, HQ Plants by 3d mentor, Archmodels by Evermotion, Plants Kit by Laubwerk and Plant Models by MaxTree (our company develops Forest Pack and RailClone, plug-ins for 3ds max). Let me mention, that any model inside of the 3ds max scene can be used as a Custom Object under the Geometry tab. So, if you Merge (or link as XRef) any model into your scene and then create Forest object, you can pick it as a Custom Object. This process can be done easily in automatic way. For this purpose we developed our Catalogs (HQ / Xfrog / Evermotion) linking all models of those model packages through Library Browser inside of Forest Pack.

I can confirm, that The XFrog Catalog supports the XRef to library option even without the optional xref="1" (as mentioned above, there's no need to specify xref="1" to allow referencing).

Hope that clears it up, but in case of any further question or doubt, please don't hesitate ask.

Best regards,

[Haider of Sweden]

Thank you very much

you clarified a lot of thing here.

I can confirm, that The XFrog Catalog supports the XRef to library option even without the optional xref="1" (as mentioned above, there's no need to specify xref="1" to allow referencing).

I can make it work with the ForestPack Flowers & Grass (that do not have xref value, which equals xref=1).
However, XFrog seems not to work. Strange. Can you help me track the cause?

[Michal Karmazín]

Hi,

You're totally right. In case of libraries containing multiple objects which must be handled as an unique entity (as trees) - like in case of Xfrog libraries, all objects of such group have to be attached innt a unique mesh.

Groups are supported, but for a different feature: to create clusters of objects that must be scattered together (e.g. clumps of grass and flowers). In this case, each item is handled as an independent item. As mentioned in our on-line reference guide: "Do not use groups for objects that must be handled as a unique object (for example a tree and its leaves). In this case, attach all the individual parts into single mesh."

As you can double check, if the <object>*</object> tag is present, all object inside of corresponding scene will be attached during the import process and therefore the XRef to library option doesn't return a XRef object, but an Editable Mesh as a result of attaching all its parts.

Best regards,

[3d-labor]

I´m surprised that XFrog Plants are not inserted as XRef while it works with HQPlants by 3dmentor. I have searched for a cause in the structure of the files. Both plant models are editable meshs with Multi/Sub-Object Materials attached. The HQPlants have 3 Types of materials in the file (Standard, MR and VRay) and containig itself a XRef with a light, camera and background. When inserted with Forest Pack there is an automatic selector which  material will be attached to the plant model according to the current renderer.  In the HQPlants folders an index.xml file exists, with an xref=1 entry.
The XFrog plants I buoght about 5 years ago only have standard materials and nothing else than the editable mesh inside the scene file. There were no xml files delivered with the XFrog plants.
So now my question is: Is it possible to create a xml-file for the XFrag Plats wich have only the header in it with the xref value? And how to make that Forest Pack accept this xml file?
The other issue with XFog plants is the insertion scale - also in the header of the xml file of HQPlants there is an entry masterScale="1."  This is right for HQPlants, which have a metric height. The Xfrog Plants are too small after inserting. It seems to be scaled to inches because a sxaling to 250% in the ForestPack Command panel seems to result in the right scale.

[Rokas]

Hi JG1281,

Please contact Xfrog regarding their integration to Forest Pack.
Major vegetation vendors do their library integration themselves.

We do not have nor their models nor additional details vendors might want to add in Library descriptions.



Thanks for understanding.