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Author Topic: Biped Animation + Forest Pack  (Read 3364 times)

Gil-

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Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« on: February 14, 2013, 10:34:42 AM »
Hello everyone,


I'm using the latest forest pack x64 with max 2013.

So I got a scene with several forest. One for the tree and some other mixed to make the grass.
The forests are in a Layer and the layer is hided.


After a few minutes (3-5) 3ds max just slowdown. The thread is taking from 8 to 30 percent but it's impossible to work with max. The only thing I can do is shutdown the program (it's still possible) or kill it.
I don't do nothing special, just moving the timeline or letting max open make the bug happend.

With the exact same scene and doing the same things, if I deleted the Forests the bug is gone.
So I suppose the bug is coming from here but I'm really not sure about it.

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2013, 11:04:35 AM »

What are your settings in the Animation rollout ?

Please, try to identify what Forest object is causing the problem (grass or biped), deleting each one of them. Next, send us a stripped scene so we can reproduce the problem here.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
The settings in animation are default.
There is no animation for the forests so it's Disabled and "Animate only at render time" is ticked.

I'm doing a little bit of debug in the scene. I will upload the scene in a few minuts.

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2013, 10:12:29 AM »
Ok so it's kinda hard to reproduce the bug since it doesn't come right away.

To reproduce it.
I create a bidep (I have no idea if there is a link with forest) but that's how I discovered the bug.
I add a mocap data and just play with the timeline.
I save the file and once in a while after a save (I can get the bug within 5/10 minuts of random manipulations) the bug appear.
Sometimes there is no need for a save.

Example of biped manipulation:
load some mocap data
move some bones
use the "move all mode"


If I only manipulate some meshes in the scene there is no issue (at least it didn't showed up to me).



Ok so after a few tests, I only have the bug with the grass. The grass is on a large plane but it render fine.
I tried to reduce the forest area but the bug is still there.

Here is a link for the test scene:
http://cynaptek.com/files/Deconstruction_Selective_scene_032-transition-notree-small_grass.zip

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2013, 11:15:23 AM »

Please, would you send me the textures by e-mail ?

The timeline responds very laggy, and i cannot manipulate the scene. Probably because Max is searching the missing textures all the time.

Thanks,
Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2013, 11:17:36 AM »
Ok, I will send it.

The timeline is also laggy for me (the first time I go from 0 to the end). Then it's a little bit better but not perfect.
Deleting the forest should speed it (it did for me).


Hum at second thought... It will be hard form to send them all. Can you just apply a simple material with no textures to the scene?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:19:36 AM by Gil- »

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2013, 11:26:50 AM »

Ok, don't worry. I will replace the materials.

Anyway i'm not sure what is lagging, if materials or something else. I will investigate further, it doesn't seem normal for the content of this scene.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2013, 11:29:32 AM »
that's for sure.

Thanks for your time !

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2013, 01:48:25 PM »

I think i've found the lagging cause. Probably it is leading to the main problem as well:

The grass object has Collisions enabled with Preview on Viewport. The density is very high (although most of items are being discarded by collisions). This is causing a significative performance hit each time Forest is rebuilt. Normally, should be necessary to rebuild it only if some parameter changes, but since there is a camera associated, the object is updated also when camera changes.

Even worse, by some reason the VRayPhysicalCamera is triggering an update notification when timeline moves. This is not normal, and it does not happen with the Standard Max camera. We will investigate the reason of this, and we will contact with ChaosGroup if it's necessary.

How to fix it:

- Turn off Camera->Auto assign to active view, and click Camera->Clear (in this scene, camera clipping is not necessary)
- Turn off Collisions->Preview on viewport

As information, i usually doesn't use collisions for this type of grass distributions. I prefer this workflow, which is much more efficient (specially for large areas):

- Set Distribution Map to "Full"
- Collisions off
- Transform->Translation on (10 or 20%)
- If needed, set Areas->Boundary Checking to Size
- Then adjust Distribution Map X/Y size to get the desired density.

Hopefully, the changes described above should solve all slowdown issues.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2013, 01:52:13 PM »
Ok, I will try your recommandations.

Did you exprienced the max slowdown like I explained?

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2013, 02:08:10 PM »
Did you exprienced the max slowdown like I explained?

Yes, just moving the timeline. It didn't happen again after applying the fix, although i have not tested it on deep.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2013, 02:11:06 PM »
Ok. I will test the scene now but I don't think it's the issue.

When I talk about a slowdown, I mean that when it happend evey time I'm tring to do something (like moving inside the scene) the cpu goes to +-40% and everything is superslow.
The only solution is to kill 3ds max and relaunch the scene.


I will test moving the biped with your recommandation and get back to you.

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2013, 02:24:53 PM »
Ok, I did some tests and it looks like removing the collision seems to solve the issue.

But sometimes the issue comes back. When it does I have to move the timeline and then it's working again.
Strange but workable :).

iToo

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 12:17:53 PM »
We just identified the bug what causes this issue. It is present in v.3.9.5 and v.4.0.1, but not in v.3.9.5. Basically it generates an infinite updating loop that would slow down Max or even freeze it.

We will release an emergency patch within a couple of days, as soon as we complete some tests. I apologize by the inconveniences.

If you want to test it, i can send you a custom patch.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Gil-

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Re: Biped Animation + Forest Pack
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2013, 08:26:50 AM »
I'm glad you found the bug :).

The custom patch won't be necessary, I managed to finish my work on the scene.
Will wait the emergency patch :)