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Author Topic: FP6 beta - several issues  (Read 1621 times)

FC1888

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FP6 beta - several issues
« on: February 11, 2018, 12:35:02 AM »
OK Installed FP 6, agreed to upgrading the already installed version, everything went ok, no errors.

Opened Max 2014, created a plane 100cm x 100 cm, applied FP, opened modify tab, in geometry section, clicked on "Library". chose Common Grass 01 (large) from Library Browser, clicked on "import selected", few seconds later, a plane, with forest pack icon and no grass.

I did nothing out of the ordinary, I changed nothing, I just installed FP6 beta, over the last version, as I have done with all the previous updates and something has gone very very very very wrong.

No point in sending the scene. It's just a single plane with Common Grass 01 (large).

NOTE 01: I doubt it matters, but I am using Vray 3.60.04.
NOTE 02: Plane was drawn in TOP view and not scaled or messed about with

EDIT 01: Layered Lawns, I chose one of them, to apply to the plane and max froze. Left it for over 20 minutes, still froze, so task manager, end task
EDIT 02: Tried using a spline (rectangle) instead of a plane and applied the same Common Grass 01 (large) to it and it worked.. Thought why not try the layered lawn preset Grass Base Layer 1 - Large, with spline. Max froze, still frozen as I type this edit

EDIT 03: I just opened an old scene, done using FP5 and the same Common grass 01 (large) on a simple plane, appeared just fine. Now I am totally confused. However, once it was loaded, I thought, lets try the Layered Lawn preset (Grass Base Layer 01 - Large). So selected the lawn forest object, clicked on Library button, chose Layered Lawns section, picked Grass Base Layer 1 - Large and boom, Max is now frozen again

EDIT 04: OK.. Weird behaviour. When you create a plane, then add FP to it, you see those default planes. Lets say the PLane is "Plane 01". If you look under Surfaces, it is listed. If you now go to the Library Browser, from the Library button, in Geometry and choose say Common Grass 01 (large) and click import selected. You get the Forest Pack Pro icon, but not grass.. If you now look under Surfaces, the plane is no longer listed.

So ok, click on the green plus button and select the plane.. Sure enough plane 01 appears in the list, however, this is far from the ideal workflow.. The plane or which ever surface you click on to apply FP, should not suddenly vanish from the list.

Oh and still haven't figured out what is wrong with the Layered Lawns library, but max freezing, is obviously not a good sign. Maybe there is some new workflow, to use them

I also tried the Vertical library and again, when applied to the plane (vertical one this time) the surface vanishes from the surfaces section, so have to add it.. Not good


EDIT 05. This is weird. My normal way of working, in FP5, was to select say the plane, select FP button in the toolbar, click on the plane, then go to the modify panel, to pick whatever objects or presets I wanted to use, in the Geometry section, deleting the default objects afterward and it worked just fine..

Now I have discovered, that if you select Forest Pro from the Create menu, then choose a library item, then click on the plane, it works. Weird

HOWEVER, this workflow, doesn't cure the freezing, when I select any layered lawns item.

So to end this, slightly over long list.

1) My original workflow for adding FP scatters to a surface, lead to the surface being removed from the list, but doing it the new way, works. However, if using a spline area, the old way works just as it always did
2) The layered lawns library, causes Max to freeze and I have no idea why. perhaps I am missing something. Maybe there is a special way of using them. but Max freezing (not responding) is definitely not good
3) Older FP5 scenes, load and render just fine, as you stated
4) Newer FP6 scenes, render just fine. Vray 3.60.04, once you figure out the workflow, although I would prefer to be able to use the old workflow, that I have grown used to

5) Not tried it with Vray Next beta 1 yet. Vray Next beta 2 comes out this month, so they say and  I think it would be best to wait until its final, before risking it with commercial work

6) I've not really tried it with IPR, although I know about the problems, it's never been necessary for me to be able to edit FP or RC objects, which using interactive rendering. Guess I ought to take a look at that later. but I am tired now, so will wait to see what you make of this lot first.

Again apologise for it being so long winded

Oh by the way, the new Vertical Presets are not picking up materials ?????. Map directory (C:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\Itoo Software\Forest Pack Pro\lib\Presets\Vertical\maps, is added to user paths, external files, same as others though
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 04:45:07 AM by FC1888 »

Dragan

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FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2018, 08:11:34 AM »
+1  :(  (Max 2015)

DB2270

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2018, 07:54:07 PM »
+2

 :o

FC1888

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2018, 11:35:01 PM »
This Layered lawns problem and Max freezing.. A little bit more digging and... I apologise for not being much of an expert

1) It appears these objects are XRefs and are using mm instead of cm, causing an Xref Object Merge: Units Mismatch dialog to me generated (several times)
2) Got a screen shot of Scene Explorer from Max 2018, which shows a very large list of what I guess are all X-referenced objects, yet on checking the installed library, the majority of them, do not exist. Perhaps this is the cause of the freeze

I've included screen grabs of the XRef Object Merge: dialog, the Scene Explorer, showing what is being XRef'd and the objects installed in the actual library folder
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:48:30 PM by FC1888 »

iToo

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2018, 08:44:03 AM »
Hi, i've been working yesterday on the bug and i have it located. I must do some additional tests, but it should be fixed today.
It affects to FP objects which are used as geometry in other FPs (nesting). This is the case of the new lawn styles.

Regarding the XRef dialog, it has no relation with the bug, but we know is very annoying. I asked to Autodesk if there is some way to disable it, and i'm waiting their reply.

Thanks,
Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

FC1888

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2018, 12:14:24 PM »
That's great Carlos, glad to hear you seem to have nailed that one.

As for the XRef dialog, when you say, you have asked if it can be disabled, what do you recommend when the dialog appears... Should we just click OK and rescale them as per the dialog or should we deselect 'Rescale the Xref Objects to the System Unit Scale'. The reason I ask, is because the Units Mismatch dialog, is not something you would normally just ignore, It usually means objects being imported or loaded modelled to a different unit scale

Oh before I go, I also mentioned that the vertical walls library, was not reading in the materials, as all other library presets seem to do automatically. It's maps directory, is listed under user files, as are all the others, yet it still won't read them, so I have to fix it manually under Reference, Asset Tracking and correct the path

Anyway, thanks for looking into this 'Layered Lawns' bug and congrats on tracking it down. I look forward to getting the fix and giving FP6 beta another run for it's money in a day or two...

Nir Sullam

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2018, 04:07:34 PM »
Do the grass presets in the Layered Lawns employ any new feature or these just forests embedded inside forests ??

NIR

iToo

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2018, 05:31:44 PM »
As for the XRef dialog, when you say, you have asked if it can be disabled, what do you recommend when the dialog appears... Should we just click OK and rescale them as per the dialog or should we deselect 'Rescale the Xref Objects to the System Unit Scale'. The reason I ask, is because the Units Mismatch dialog, is not something you would normally just ignore, It usually means objects being imported or loaded modelled to a different unit scale

Yes, you should always accept the rescale, if not the library will not be imported correctly.

For the next update, i've added a flag in "forestpack.ini" to disable all XRef popups. That will help with this annoying message, but in this case Max will use the default option (i'm not sure if it's always OK, or Max remembers the last selection).
Ideally, we should be able to force OK as the option and avoid the dialog. But actually that's not possible. I'm in contact with Autodesk's to include that possibility in next Max versions.

Quote
Oh before I go, I also mentioned that the vertical walls library, was not reading in the materials, as all other library presets seem to do automatically. It's maps directory, is listed under user files, as are all the others, yet it still won't read them, so I have to fix it manually under Reference, Asset Tracking and correct the path

For new libraries we have separated the maps in different folders (one local "maps" for each one). Before we were using an unique "maps" folder for all libraries, but that was a limitation to integrate them in Update Manager.

When you select for first time an item from a library, a dialog is shown to add the maps folder to External Files->User's paths. Although in case of render or unattended nodes, it's necessary to configure the paths manually.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

iToo

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2018, 05:43:45 PM »
Do the grass presets in the Layered Lawns employ any new feature or these just forests embedded inside forests ??

No, we don't use any new features on these presets, it's just a new collection.

Although the initial release use nested forests, we just updated them and now use a single FP by model (the update is available on Update Manager).
For some reason, Max was crashing with one of the scenes (tons of FP objects linked between them). We could not find any workaround, so we have reverted them to the "old" style.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

FC1888

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2018, 06:49:49 PM »
Pity you couldn't completely solve the problem Carlos, but being a beta, I am sure you won't totally give up on the idea just yet... Downloading the updated files now.

Plenty of companies out there, could learn a lot from you customer service, especially the response time

iToo

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2018, 11:38:13 AM »
Opened Max 2014, created a plane 100cm x 100 cm, applied FP, opened modify tab, in geometry section, clicked on "Library". chose Common Grass 01 (large) from Library Browser, clicked on "import selected", few seconds later, a plane, with forest pack icon and no grass.

We just uploaded FP 6.0.1 with this, and the other problems fixed.

Quote
Oh by the way, the new Vertical Presets are not picking up materials ?????. Map directory (C:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\Itoo Software\Forest Pack Pro\lib\Presets\Vertical\maps, is added to user paths, external files, same as others though

Theorically you should get the attached dialog, the first time this library is used. It adds the path to external files.
We have done several tests here, and everything seems correct with the materials.

What error do you get exactly ? If possible, please post a screenshot.

Thanks,
Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

Nir Sullam

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2018, 12:26:52 PM »

Plenty of companies out there, could learn a lot from you customer service, especially the response time

I second that whole heartedly !!

NIR

FC1888

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2018, 01:33:48 PM »
Opened Max 2014, created a plane 100cm x 100 cm, applied FP, opened modify tab, in geometry section, clicked on "Library". chose Common Grass 01 (large) from Library Browser, clicked on "import selected", few seconds later, a plane, with forest pack icon and no grass.

We just uploaded FP 6.0.1 with this, and the other problems fixed.

Quote
Oh by the way, the new Vertical Presets are not picking up materials ?????. Map directory (C:\Users\<name>\AppData\Local\Itoo Software\Forest Pack Pro\lib\Presets\Vertical\maps, is added to user paths, external files, same as others though

Theorically you should get the attached dialog, the first time this library is used. It adds the path to external files.
We have done several tests here, and everything seems correct with the materials.

What error do you get exactly ? If possible, please post a screenshot.

Thanks,

Have just installed the update 6.01b. Al good except this problem with the Vertical maps not being picked up

I create a plane, vertical of course
I apply FP, via toolbar and click on plane, default planes (point cloud mode) appear
I click Go to modify panel and click on Library
First problem.. There is no thumbnail for the Vertical Preset folder (see image)
I choose a preset, one of the XY ones
I get the following message (To use high poly objects....... (see image) and click YES
I see no message about adding the maps as you stated, i did see it with other presets, but strangely not Vertical
The point cloud appears in the viewport attached to the plane
I check the maps folder is added to the list of external files (see image) which it is and the maps are definitely installed at that location
I open Asset tracking dialog and it shows two maps are missing (see image) have no idea what that strange img\ path is al about

Cheers

Paul Roberts

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2018, 05:50:03 PM »
Hi!

Thanks again for the feedback. It seems that earlier versions of Max aren't keen on that relative path. To resolve this we've stripped all the paths from the materials in this library which should fix the issue. The new version with the fix will be on Update Manager soon. If you want to use the library before then, stripping the paths will make it work.

We've also added a thumbnail, thanks for spotting that!

Quote
I see no message about adding the maps as you stated, i did see it with other presets, but strangely not Vertical

You'll only see a message if the path is not already in the paths list. You added it before so you won't see the notification. If you were to delete the path, you should see the pop up once again.

Thanks again for taking the time to test the beta. It's very helpful.

All the best,

Paul
Paul Roberts
iToo Software

FC1888

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Re: FP6 beta - several issues
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2018, 06:18:38 PM »
That's great and thanks for the reply and I think I will just wait for the fix in Update Manager, no rush at the moment, probably won't have a huge need for vertical plant walls and I can always use Asset Manager to fix any missing maps until then.

As for my time testing the beta, you are welcome

Thanks again