Itoo Software Forum

RailClone => RailClone Pro (*) => Topic started by: arch3d on September 05, 2022, 07:12:42 AM

Title: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 05, 2022, 07:12:42 AM
Hello;
Regarding this treat:https://forum.itoosoft.com/railclone-pro-(*)/corners-none-gt-reset/msg34765/#msg34765 (https://forum.itoosoft.com/railclone-pro-(*)/corners-none-gt-reset/msg34765/#msg34765)

How to tweak expression to get corners <90 like on screen?

Many thanks for help.
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 05, 2022, 10:38:09 AM
Hi,

Please see the attached for a modified macro. I hope it's what you need, please let me know if you have any questions.

Paul
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 05, 2022, 10:47:33 AM
Paul,
Its exacly what I was looking for. Thank you very much
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 05, 2022, 10:54:40 AM
Great - glad to help out.
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 07, 2022, 10:22:08 AM
Paul,
One more question regading this topic :)
Can I use compose(grouped), sequence, or A1S instead of corner segment?

I tried all of them and no result:(
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 08, 2022, 09:50:45 AM
Paul,
Sorry i forgot attach scene:)
I have two probles with style:
1.is symmetric corners as in tread
2.well known problem witch clearing style before/after corner (i would like to change geometry depends of ID)

Thx for help
Michal
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 08, 2022, 10:29:06 AM
Hi Michael,

Thanks for the file. Just a quick question before I tackle it. Would it be suitable to use markers instead of material IDs to define the different pavement types?

Cheers,
Paul.
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 08, 2022, 10:44:46 AM
Nope
I reserve markers for other  purposes like lowering surface and additional stuff:)
But even better would be line type instead ID
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 08, 2022, 10:58:12 AM
But if there is no semi-automatic way i always can add some extra points to get some better result
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 08, 2022, 12:41:21 PM
OK - Please see the attached.

To force the switching of geometry after a vertex, you need to break the array with a corner. I've done this by allowing corners to be created using either Corner or Bezier-Corner verts. In the case that a Bezier Corner vert is used, a null segment is added to the corner instead, breaking the array but without adding any geometry. Basically, you add a Bezier-Corner when you divide the spline into different IDs.

As for the symmetrical corners - that made me scratch my head!! I've solved it, but I need to tweak the Symmetrical Corners macro a bit for each row of a 2D array, This is to take into consideration the depth of the segments in the rows below.

(https://i.imgur.com/yEYM57h.png)

I hope it helps,

Paul
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 08, 2022, 01:14:47 PM
Paul,
Thank you very much, ill check it:)

Yes I know that i have to somehow force RC to create section

Regarding symmetrical corner - If you sav it was hard, my mind would blow before I would figure out:) I always try to figure out how to do something but usually i give up after 3 days  ;D

Basically i need it to create clean topology to avoid deviation using surfaces (same reason was using A2S instead of A1S)

Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 06:45:38 AM
Paul,
Everything works fine. Thank you again.
One more question to better understand style,
To resolve clearing corners even better I can limit generator by ID (to keep synchronized arcs second generator shoud by aligned to Y spline) - it would be better for me because i can keep structure of style.

and most importnant question
In this case I shouldnt have problem with misplaced markers geometry even if I limit geenerators by ID. Am I right?
...in theory...
Tests look promising
Thank you again
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 09, 2022, 09:28:28 AM
Hi,

Limit by ID should work for you fine, and there's shouldn't be any issues with Markers as long as you are on RC 5.2 or later.

The only issue you might encounter is limiting by ID mid-curve. When that happens you might find that a small gap appears in the pavement because the geometry will no longer deform to continue across the ID break smoothly. As far as RC sees it internally, it's now two different splines.

I hope that makes sense.

Paul
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 09:37:20 AM
Paul,
All I want to know. Thank you.

Quote
When that happens you might find that a small gap appears in the pavement because the geometry will no longer deform to continue across the ID break smoothly

I am aware that I should do "brake" on straight segment (corner angle ==0).

Thank you
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 11:34:53 AM
Paul,
And a second issue when I am in Free mode and i pin to surface i get same effect if I use A1S:(
THX
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 09, 2022, 02:31:41 PM
What is the issue when using L1S. Sorry to ask, I should probably know :)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 02:40:08 PM
:)
https://forum.itoosoft.com/railclone-pro-(*)/z-deform-after-compose/ (https://forum.itoosoft.com/railclone-pro-(*)/z-deform-after-compose/)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 02:48:31 PM
and here is my style A2S in free mode

"mind the gap" as they say:)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 02:51:15 PM
and A2S - default corner and aligned mode
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 03:37:36 PM
...and aligned arc vs free mode arc...

so as you can see it has to be aligned:)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 09, 2022, 03:38:46 PM
Interesting, I'm actually suprised that works at all and I must admit, this one I'm not sure how to fix. In real life, I've always understood that a hard mitre on a corner that's also sloped is pretty much impossible if you also want to keep the profile vertical. That's why on stairs you'll often see handrail sections like this:

(https://i.imgur.com/9FLWL2Y.png)

In that way, you go around the corner flat before starting the slope again. Of course when projecting onto a surface you can't easily do that. Another option is a smooth deformation like this

(https://i.imgur.com/ZvXz6ZL.png)

This one can be achieved in RailClone using the Fillet Corners option, but that won't create the kinds of corners you're after.

I'm going to have to think about this one a bit, please bear with me.

Best.
Paul
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 03:52:37 PM
Paul,
I'll sent you file to support@itoosoft.com
Maybe it will easier, its pretty complex:)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Paul Roberts on September 09, 2022, 03:53:47 PM
Thanks, I'll take a look!
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Dragan on September 09, 2022, 04:46:24 PM
Me from holiday 😃 (wife is shopping so I have a few minutes)....
I'm not sure but I think I've nested L1S as free Y and connected to the top or bottom (could be default as well 😁) of A2S or it was still aligned mode, not quite sure. But I know I had to nest L1S to overcome usual 2D array to achieve the nice cornering transition with surface included.

Above all this I think I had one crazy workflow nesting circular L1S onto corners using limits to fit angle paths. Client loves the workflow where all the city blocks where driven by sharp corner clipping spline and the same spline was used for sidewalks but if the corner was set to beziere-corner it will use rounded corners created by circular L1S (worked for non 90deg corners also).

Since this was during some short Eastern holiday i think I have some working file on my laptop. So when Anna finish spending ££ $$ €€ 😕 I'll check for the file.
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
Hehehe,
Yup i didnt expect so many problems i have a massive landscape on sloped terrain so its importnant to get proper style. I always trying avoid A2S but this time i can't:)
many thanks for help

and block credit card...
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 09, 2022, 05:05:55 PM
Quote
Interesting, I'm actually suprised that works at all

Heheheh i think ill print this sentence and pin over my laptop ;D

I have that feeling many times:)
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 10, 2022, 06:57:41 AM
As far as I know only solution is brake generator for 5 separated A2S (each with different corner and markers) in aligned mode but I really dont want to do it because style will be massive:(
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Dragan on September 10, 2022, 07:40:29 AM
and block credit card...

 :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Dragan on September 10, 2022, 08:03:31 AM
As far as I know the only solution is a brake generator for 5 separated A2S (each with different corner and markers) in aligned mode but I really don't want to do it because the style will be massive:(

Braking to multiple generators most of the time is a better solution than squeezing everything into a single one.
I would not be worried about the style. For some of my styles, I need to collapse nodes just to fit all in a canvas area  ;D and RC works fine.


I found only start-up file with the initial macro. As I remember this one was all upside down and it will not work well with the surface but maybe it can be helpful to get you some ideas. The goal was to round the end of the side walks on corner vertices and to keep them sharp on the bezier corner (can`t test here,  3DSMax won't even start today on this junk of laptop  :-\ )
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 10, 2022, 09:17:01 AM
Quote
Braking to multiple generators most of the time is a better solution than squeezing everything into a single one.

True, even more i prefer multiple half A1S - mirrored and flipped :D
Always try to avoid A2S - sometimes it depends to much customization.
But this time I got at least 5 different generators, at least 3 or more corners, and multiple markers. More or less basic structure should be different, so  I have to start almost from scratch

Priceless when you plug zillion variables and last one brakes whole style ;D

Same as you I really love collect insine rare macros
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 10, 2022, 09:27:29 AM
from my experionce if I spend a lot of time and crate one good generator I will use it in many variations

...and second thought - if you spend a week to find out sollution, than read whole forum twice you will learn a lot and you will remember it...

...another way is just pray to catch Paul in good mood when you ask for help  ;D

Seriously I dont remember situation when Itoo Team didnt help me. Perfect support.Thanks for that
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Dragan on September 10, 2022, 09:37:48 AM
...another way is just pray to catch Paul in good mood when you ask for help  ;D

+1
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 10, 2022, 09:52:24 AM
Dragan thank you very much for file.
I will study it if you dont mind.
This time surface is clue. I do animation and each face is priceless
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: Dragan on September 10, 2022, 10:36:03 AM
Sure, Michal
I know this style is different of what you need at the moment. This style has only two important notes: circular spline and  appropriate array, and one arithmetic that is important calculating the length of the corner's arch and set this as a limit padding.
Sorry couldn't help more in this 'circumstances' 😏
Looking forward to see another good project from you.
Best Regards
Title: Re: Corner None -> Reset once again
Post by: arch3d on September 10, 2022, 10:44:26 AM
No worries,
Thx
I hope i will publish it in 2-3 months. Now i cant show anything because NDA.

Thank you for help. I can always count of your exerience. I appreciated for sharing your knowledge and time.

Best