Itoo Software Forum

RailClone => RailClone Pro (*) => Topic started by: mabulsoud on August 28, 2018, 12:12:47 AM

Title: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on August 28, 2018, 12:12:47 AM
Hi,

I'm trying to create an RC style for a sprinkler system that incorporates different pipe sizes as well as other neat features.

I'm hitting a wall with some things though.

1. I don't know how to define the ceiling height. I would like all the support lines to automatically go to the ceiling and stop there so you can see the ceiling connection.
2. Sprinkler height should be a fixed value from the ceiling as well.
3. I'm having all kinds of weird connections with gaps or they won't orient correctly
4. There seems to be a weird geometry artifact at some place.

I have attached images that illustrate the separate issues as well as the .max file with the RC style.

I'm using 3ds max 2018 and RC 3.1.0

Thanks,

Marwan
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on August 28, 2018, 01:09:03 PM
Hi

Thanks for the question. You used compose grouped mode. Which is incompatible with some features You want to have (adjustable height).
I redid Your style with sequential compose mode.
RailClone V4 will have some improvements which will enable similar styles to be constructed more easily.

I attach You modified style for You.

(https://i.imgur.com/3aYJR3G.png)
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on August 28, 2018, 02:18:21 PM
Thanks Rokas!

I have one more question. How do I distribute sprinklers at vertices?

Evertime I add a vertex it adds a corner piece and I'm trying to avoid that
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on August 28, 2018, 02:27:38 PM
I doubt You want sprinklers on vertices. These are important for corners. And corners have corner element, not sprinkler. I probably misunderstand something. Can You explain in more detail?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on August 28, 2018, 02:49:25 PM
I'm trying to make it so that you have a straight vertical pipe at manually placed vertices.

Kind of like an "even" distribution but instead of using a distance value the designers can manually place vertices along the pipe line to choose where the sprinklers are.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on August 28, 2018, 03:36:23 PM
create new linear generator with only corners input where vertices are smooth - sprinklers will be added.

(https://preview.ibb.co/cyCv09/image.png)
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on August 28, 2018, 04:11:42 PM
I'm trying to wrap my head around your changes they're quite extensive! Thanks so much for that!

There seems to be some problem areas still in terms of orientation of connections. as well as the new vertical sprinklers. Please see attached image. and .max file.

I'm also curious what features in RC4 would make this easier?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on August 29, 2018, 11:11:38 AM
Hi

Some connections do orient badly due to vertical splines. RC cant compute initial X/Y vectors.
As a workaround You can create conditional material ID operators to adjust rotation.

RC4 will have nested generators with one RailClone Style. Compositing segments will be easier and more flexible.

In attached max file I only fixed manual sprinklers.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on August 30, 2018, 07:35:20 PM
Thanks so much Rokas!

That's great news about RC4. I'm planning on making the rest of the MEP systems and that would come in handy.

I've got the general idea of your fixes. But I'm trying to understand the following

1. There are a lot of fixed padding/translation on different pieces of geometry. Are these numbers just trial and error? Is there a way to have these parametrized from the geometry so that it can be easily swapped?
2. I really don't understand what the three expressions do. Is there a tutorial/guide that explains that somewhere.

Lastly I noticed there's a problem that happens when the support distance is dropped below 200. Some supports start pointing down while some of the top parts start floating. It seems to only happen for the 1.5" pipe one. I've tried to compare the two and see why but I couldn't find it.

I've attached a photo showing the issue as well as the .max file.

Thanks again for your excellent support.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on August 31, 2018, 02:10:56 PM
Thanks so much Rokas!

That's great news about RC4. I'm planning on making the rest of the MEP systems and that would come in handy.

I've got the general idea of your fixes. But I'm trying to understand the following

1. There are a lot of fixed padding/translation on different pieces of geometry. Are these numbers just trial and error? Is there a way to have these parametrized from the geometry so that it can be easily swapped?


2. I really don't understand what the three expressions do. Is there a tutorial/guide that explains that somewhere.


Lastly I noticed there's a problem that happens when the support distance is dropped below 200. Some supports start pointing down while some of the top parts start floating. It seems to only happen for the 1.5" pipe one. I've tried to compare the two and see why but I couldn't find it.

I've attached a photo showing the issue as well as the .max file.

Thanks again for your excellent support.

1.
Yes I put them by trial end error but certainly You can export segments attributes and calculate exact value as well. graph will look more like spider web.

2.
I would recommend starting in this topic (https://forum.itoosoft.com/railclone-pro-(*)/expressions/).

3.
This value needs to be above some value so all sprinklers are above highest of the pipes.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 17, 2018, 04:15:12 PM
Hi Rokas,

I understand that the vertical distance needs to be a certain minimum. But I was actually referring to the horizontal distance which acts very strange.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 19, 2018, 08:33:02 PM
I have the style working (almost) perfectly now. Thank you!

I'm still having one problem with the "Support Distance" Parameter as shown in the attached picture. There also seems to be a problem with the material ID's where some sprinklers will lose all IDs and switch to ID=1.

Example 01: sprinkler distance is set to 54. You can see that all supports are working properly but somehow there are whole pipes without any supports for some reason
Example 02: sprinkler distance is set to 36. Some supports flip vertically and some are even floating. The supports are still distributed in an almost random fashion though

I'm using even distribution to control the distance between the supports. Is there something I'm doing wrong here that's causing this wrong behavior?

Thanks,

Marwan
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 19, 2018, 09:26:33 PM
The examples below
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 20, 2018, 03:55:57 PM
I've solved that geometry losing the MatID issue but the even distribution just seems to be working haphazardly. Any pointers on what to look at would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on September 20, 2018, 04:29:18 PM
Try to set Support Rule Corner = smooth
(https://i.imgur.com/lhuSXQD.png)
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 20, 2018, 04:39:17 PM
Please find it attached.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on September 20, 2018, 05:06:01 PM
I replied before Your atachment, does that help ?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 20, 2018, 10:14:19 PM
Hi Rokas,

Thanks for the tip that's actually very helpful. I didn't realize the corner type affects the even distribution, but it actually makes sense. now my distance counter works properly! I also managed to fix all the connection orientations so the style works correctly for all situations. I'm still stumped as to why some of the supports are rotated and some have floating parts as in the attached example and .max file.

Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Mouton on September 21, 2018, 11:40:49 AM
cool thread help allot one thing sorry to highjack this tread maybe also good for you mabulsoud how do u reduce the pipe from lets say 80 mm to lets say 20 etc with the reducer
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on September 21, 2018, 03:34:02 PM
seems like a bug. I will investigate it further and report for development team.

cheers.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on September 22, 2018, 12:50:59 AM
Thank you Rokas!
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 08, 2018, 07:51:17 PM
Thank you Rokas. I have hit another issue this time with the conditional operator. I'm trying to have the angle control whether to display the 90 degree or the straight reducer but it's not having any effect on the object. Is this also a bug or am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 09, 2018, 08:58:09 AM
Hi

When setting conditional operator use mental "OR" between Your options.
(https://i.imgur.com/q0TB0Cd.png)

If any of them is true then it will be true.
As vertex in question is Bezier Type then it's angle is not important- it will result in True- as "condition Bezier" is already satisfied.

Hope this explanation helps.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 10, 2018, 04:18:14 AM
That explains it thank you. But it still doesn't work as expected. It turns all of them into one or the other regardless of angle. Is there a better way to achieve this sort of thing?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 10, 2018, 08:26:39 AM
I am sorry, I thought that worked in Your style.
Where can I find section which is not working for You ?

(https://i.imgur.com/vd5Olh8.png)
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 10, 2018, 02:33:46 PM
The part I circled in my previous post. it's in the bottom left if you're looking at the top view. It either keeps all the 90 degree reducers or it deletes all of them. So it seems it's either always true or always false.

Edit: I also tried using position but didn't seem to work either
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 10, 2018, 02:45:15 PM
that one checkbox I mentioned about bezier vertex seems to solve the issue:
(https://i.imgur.com/rLPBjI0.png)
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 10, 2018, 03:03:26 PM
Yes but it removes the 90 degree connection everywhere else too. Like in the attached image
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 10, 2018, 04:31:36 PM
Thank You for this picture.

I lowered green pipe to see what corners are there. Turns out there is only start/end vertices no 90 deg corners. Angle condition is no use in this case.
Some other vertex marker should be used to split the purposes. I can't think of solution at the moment.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 22, 2018, 11:50:59 PM
Hi again,

Coming back to more MEP systems. I think I discovered another quirk/bug. I'm applying a random index to choose between two different pipes in the max file attached. It works fine for all the different arrays until I try to control the seed with an numeric input then the array for the "pieces" (see groups) breaks. Is there any way to fix this?

Ps. Any ideas for doing the straight reduces from the previous style? It seems to me if there could be a condition to check whether a vertex is between two segments with different material IDs it would allow for a lot of this type of "transition" for all kinds of styles.

Thanks,

Marwan
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 23, 2018, 10:27:45 AM
Hi, nice style. However I do not understand where Your mentioned issue is.
(https://i.imgur.com/RSiZBW8.gif)
That seems to work as expected.

Regarding Your suggestion:
"condition to check whether a vertex is between two segments with different material IDs "
I agree that this would be great option to have. I will add this to new features list.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 23, 2018, 03:46:09 PM
Thanks! If you look in your gif you'll see that it's not working properly on the third second pipe from the top. But if you disable the seed numeric and just directly manipulate it in the index it works properly.

It would be great having that conditional feature! Is there any chance this could happen anytime soon? It would be extremely helpful for doing HVAC systems which in currently working on.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 23, 2018, 03:51:24 PM
it's not working properly on the third second pipe from the top.
Sorry. Third? second? Where to look exactly?

It would be great having that conditional feature! Is there any chance this could happen anytime soon? It would be extremely helpful for doing HVAC systems which in currently working on.
Unfortunately I can't promise that anytime soon.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 23, 2018, 05:13:57 PM
Sorry I meant second.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 24, 2018, 05:01:59 PM
I see what You mean. Probably seed between generators does not work when using exported seed value.
Thanks we will check this.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 25, 2018, 05:52:38 PM
Hi,

I've encountered another issue with this definition. It seems the radius of the bevel at the corner changing is a problem. Is there a way to make it consistent across all the pipes?

Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 29, 2018, 09:25:13 AM
Hi

This is not a bug though
It is better to understand with a plane object instead of pipes:
(https://i.imgur.com/7jhgMY2.png)

You should increase fillet radius for this to be working.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: mabulsoud on October 30, 2018, 01:32:11 PM
That makes the radius too big on the other end. is there a way to maintain a consistent radius across the different pipes?
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Rokas on October 30, 2018, 03:13:53 PM
only one that i know- use separate splines for each of the pipe.
Title: Re: Custom Sprinkler style
Post by: Colin97 on February 25, 2020, 05:10:25 AM
I downloaded the railclone file earlier in this thread and it's awesome but looks like something is off with version 4.  Can someone help me fix it?

Thanks