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Author Topic: Pivot point “Compose” operator fixed at individual input segments?  (Read 991 times)

satoer

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Hi, I’m back for my daily question, hope you don’t mind ;)

I want to create an animation with an moving monitor attached at hinged arms on a rails. The way I thought it would work is by stacking every segment into “Compose” operators and moving them with “Transform” operators (point 1 and 2 on the image)


The expectation was that if I rotate the “Transform” operator (Marked with 1 on the picture), I rotate Monitor (green) and MonitorArm2 (yellow) as a group with a averaged pivot point (so the compose operator is treated like a single segment). But, it seems that every attached objects rotate on their own pivot-point which results in misaligned segments. The expectation of an averaged pivot point wasn’t the most ideal situation, but could probably be resolved using an expression with some trigonometry. But I don’t know how to resolve this behaviour.

Is there a way to achieve this?

I would greatly help if a future update of RC can have some extra radio options in the “compose” operator:
- Leave pivot point at individual segments (Current default)
- Adopt pivot point from the first segment
- Move pivot point to X[  ] Y[  ] Z[  ] (edit boxes with the averaged pivot points as defaults)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 09:46:41 PM by satoer »

Paul Roberts

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Re: Pivot point “Compose” operator fixed at individual input segments?
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2014, 01:06:20 PM »
Hi,

No problem at all. Unfortunately in this case you are limited by the way that RailClone's core works. It was designed primarily and a parametric modelling tool and isn't well suited to this kind of rigging task. I'm assuming that you want to animate this object in which case I wonder if instead of combining the elements in RailClone, you can rig and skin it before adding it as a single segment? Any animated deformation you apply to the source would be reflected in all the instances.

However, I like a challenge! So attached you'll find a simplified version that allows you to rotate the segments around the pivots you have specified. As you suggested in your post, this was created using trig expressions to place the segments as they rotate.

I've also forwarded your proposals for the compose operator to the developers but these would involve significant changes to the RailClone core to achieve.

I hope that helps, and I look forward to today's question  :D

Cheers,

Paul

p.s. I'm not sure what you're making but it looks fascinating  :).
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 01:08:12 PM by Paul Roberts »
Paul Roberts
iToo Software

satoer

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Re: Pivot point “Compose” operator fixed at individual input segments?
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2014, 03:02:31 PM »
Quote
No problem at all. Unfortunately in this case you are limited by the way that RailClone's core works. It was designed primarily and a parametric modelling tool and isn't well suited to this kind of rigging task. I'm assuming that you want to animate this object in which case I wonder if instead of combining the elements in RailClone, you can rig and skin it before adding it as a single segment? Any animated deformation you apply to the source would be reflected in all the instances.
I’m taking it one step at the time. The next step was to animate the monitors individually in different positions based on the distance travelled on the spline, or based on the height from the ground. Maybe incorporate some random value to get all different movements. With the expression editor I can extract different value’s like the distance from the ground, I thought I could use this data to animate the monitors.

But if I take the advice to animated it and feeding it as a single element to Railclone, is it possible to offset the animation so that every monitor doesn’t do the same?

Quote
However, I like a challenge! So attached you'll find a simplified version that allows you to rotate the segments around the pivots you have specified. As you suggested in your post, this was created using trig expressions to place the segments as they rotate.
Wow, that’s a mindboggling construction you’ve created! Took me an hour to understand what you’ve done. I really appreciate the extensive support :)
Quote
I've also forwarded your proposals for the compose operator to the developers but these would involve significant changes to the RailClone core to achieve.
To the core? So it’s not possible that an operator outputs itself pretending it’s just a single Segment?
Quote
I hope that helps, and I look forward to today’s question
Well, I’m still biting on today’s answer ;)
Quote
I'm not sure what you're making but it looks fascinating
That makes the both of us haha I haven’t got the final picture in my mind yet. It’s a bit of an learning project to understand every bit of this plugin. I’m “winging” it a bit while I’m designing it. For now I’m trying to create some steampunk style of rails with monitors (which is going to display my portfolio for a showreel) with lots of gears and overly complicated mechanics. This plugin really has the potential to create massive amount of geometry, and I’m planning to use this power ;)
I have something in mind like the doors scene in Monsters inc (do you know that scene? With all the doors):

 Combined with some fantasy woods or something (Yes, I’ve the forest pack to ;) )

Paul Roberts

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Re: Pivot point “Compose” operator fixed at individual input segments?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 10:07:34 PM »
I’m taking it one step at the time. The next step was to animate the monitors individually in different positions based on the distance travelled on the spline, or based on the height from the ground. Maybe incorporate some random value to get all different movements. With the expression editor I can extract different value’s like the distance from the ground, I thought I could use this data to animate the monitors.
But if I take the advice to animated it and feeding it as a single element to Railclone, is it possible to offset the animation so that every monitor doesn’t do the same?

You are right, RailClone does not currently have a ways to randomise or offset the animation applied to the source object. In this instance animating parametrically in RailClone is probably your best bet.

Quote
Wow, that’s a mindboggling construction you’ve created! Took me an hour to understand what you’ve done. I really appreciate the extensive support :)

No problem at all, I'm glad I could help out.

Quote
I haven’t got the final picture in my mind yet. It’s a bit of an learning project to understand every bit of this plugin. I’m “winging” it a bit while I’m designing it. For now I’m trying to create some steampunk style of rails with monitors (which is going to display my portfolio for a showreel) with lots of gears and overly complicated mechanics. This plugin really has the potential to create massive amount of geometry, and I’m planning to use this power ;)
I have something in mind like the doors scene in Monsters inc (do you know that scene? With all the doors):

Sounds like a great idea, I hope we can see the finished result :) .

Many thanks,

Paul
Paul Roberts
iToo Software