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Author Topic: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render  (Read 3561 times)

TM3598

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Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« on: February 08, 2013, 10:09:08 PM »
This is driving me nuts !

Can someone please explain this ??

I am getting really frustrated by this trial and error approach, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't - I've done the basic tutorial but there is NO tutorial explaining DISPLAY AND COMMON PROBLEMS.

Thank you.

iToo

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2013, 11:50:46 PM »

I apologize by that, but there are multiple causes that can make the items not visible at render. For this reason we include the Forest Stats window (at General rollout), it will help you to identify the problem.

Please try this: open the Stats window, keep it open and render. If the Forest object cannot be rendered, an information message will be shown at Stats. If it is necessary, send us a screenshot and we will help you.

If that helps, you can find the reference of Display parameters here:

http://www.itoosoft.com/forestpack/reference/refdisplay.php

Also the following tutorial, as sample for your grass scenes:

http://www.itoosoft.com/forestpack/tutorials/tutorial_realgrass.php

In any case, don't hesitate to ask us or send scenes in which you require assistance.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

TM3598

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 12:30:23 AM »
Thanks but I have really had enough, I cannot do something as simple as make a scene because the documentation is lacking.

Yes, I already know about the Stats window, but what do the stats mean ??

How do we USE the stats ??????????????????

Where is the explanation ?

I have read ALL your Documentation.

For example, Max. Density = what is this number ?

(for example, my scene says Max. Density = 54.1K trees in area, WHAT area ??????  The stats also say Render items 8762 ????)

Max Density in relation to WHAT ???

If you make several Forest objects is each 'display' setting independent, i.e. for EACH Forest Object ??  Is this controlled for each one in the Display tab ??

For my scene, I have 3 Forest Objects, Grass, some plants in the grass (distributed) and some hand painted plants in the grass.

It took me 3 hours to work out how to RENDER the plants, but I spent 3 more hours TRYING TO work out WHY the handpainted ones are NOT viewed in the RENDER.

I still don't know...................................

 >:(

For me, it's quicker to just do this in Photoshop and not waste ONE DAY on this.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, you must explain in documentation what is the most important area in your software, how to DISPLAY AND RENDER your objects......

WITH SOUND.

From what I understand, it seems to me as though there is VERY MUCH a balance between display and render.

I need to know how to use this software and just use it, but right now, i cannot dream of being creative with it, all I am getting is very frustrated and tired.

 >:(

Please explain clearly;

Max Items (in Modify Panel under Display),

And Max Density (in Stats and in Modify Panel)

And Max Faces

And Please confirm that Display panel is PER OBJECT OR for the ENTIRE SCENE ??

(for example, make a 100m x 100m plane, use distribution FULL and the stats should mean something ????)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 12:33:51 AM by TM3598 »

TM3598

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 12:39:03 AM »
By the way, my scene renders, you just don't see the hand painted flowers.

Also, if I decrease the grass density, I can see my flowers (no they are NOT hidden by the grass, it's as though the total number of 'trees' is too much)......  But the STATS dont' warn of any problem....

TM3598

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 12:58:21 AM »
Okay,

I've calmed down a bit now  :)

I reduced the density of my grass by increasing the X value in the Distribution map (even though I liked the look of my grass with it's original density).

So, now I can see my flowers......

But I need to understand what I need to do to control all of this density, it doesn't make that much sense to me.

No warnings were given by the software - telling me I had too dense grass, (I think it was 1.9m 'trees'....)

Thank you.

iToo

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 10:18:17 AM »

Ok, i will try to explain you each limit, and the suggested settings for each one.  All values are defined by object, not by scene.

As you can see, in the Display rollout there are separate limits for viewport and render. In this case, we are interested only in the render limits:

Display->Max Items / Max Faces

Limits the maximum number of items or mesh's faces created by the plugin. The default value is 500,000 objects and 5 million faces. When this limit is reached, the plugin builds an "F" icon instead of trees, and the Forest Stats window shows a warning message.

Note: The "Max Faces" value is ignored in Mental Ray / VRay and "Automatic" mode, since these renderers are not limited by the number of faces when working on this mode.


If you use one of the engines supported natively (as VRay or Mental Ray), set always Render Mode->Automatic. In this case, the "Max Faces" limit is not used, because Forest uses a custom geometry shader to generate the geometry.

By default the Max Items value is 500K (half million). Usually it is not necessary to increase this limit except in huge scenes. Also we suggest not using more than 500K items in Mental Ray, and 3 Mill. in VRay because the render times would grow exponentially (see Rendering Best Practices for details).

Distribution->Max Density

Defines the limit of possible tree positions in the area (by default 10 million). Take care: this includes both white and black pixels in the distribution map, so you may reach the density limit using an empty map and low X/Y values, but not get a single tree in the scene.


To define the position of each item in the scene Forest creates internally a virtual "grid", defined by the Distribution Map and the X/Y Density values. If for example, you use a low density map (as "Very Scattered"), you may be tempted to increase the density lowering X/Y Size. This is not efficient, because most of the positions in the map will be gaps (black pixels). We use this parameter to avoid getting higher densities of the grid (but with few items at all).

To create dense distributions, we suggest first to set a high density map (as "Full"), or lower the "Threshold" value. Then, adjust the X/Y parameters to get the desired result. To prevent the "grid" look of the "Full" map, turn on Transform->Random Translation to 10 or 20%.

Besides the Stats window, Forest shows some information messages that are displayed when reaching one of their limits. As this:



Why we add so many limits ? Well, becuase it is very common than novice users try to create huge distributions, in their early scenes with the plugin. We prefer they get a warning message, instead a crash of Max or the render engine.

For example, a typical grass field scene of 200m x 200m would require more than 70 Millions of individual grass blades. Neither Forest, Max or the render engine can handle this number of elements. In this case, it is necessary to create a distribution of grass clumps, as we shown in the Realistic Grass tutorial.

I hope everything is more clear now. If now, please ask me.

Carlos Quintero
iToo Software

TM3598

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Re: Why are objects in my Viewport but not in my render
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 07:37:05 AM »
Thank you Carlos for your explanations.

I now know how to use FPP for my needs and can say that it is absolutely fantastic !!!

I can't wait to create some really great forest scenes and "Wow" people with its capabilities :)