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Author Topic: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation  (Read 913 times)

mynewcat

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Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« on: August 22, 2017, 07:21:13 PM »
It is with a profound sense of disappointment that I make this post. I have waited years for a decent rooftiles implementation and when I saw the preview video I was excited in a way that a 40 year old man should never be over a software plugin.

Now that I have got some time to start a new project, I am flabbergasted as to how it's been implemented.

I'm curious as to how anyone at Itoo models their houses - because using splines in the way it is implemented seems incredibly slow and cumbersome.

Can someone please explain a better workflow to me - of how you make angled roofing using splines, with the correct angles, from 2d.

I mean this is how I do it right now: - I go to a side view and trace the shape of the facia - extrude along using the front view as a guide - and that's how I get the roof geometry (see attached).

Then, I can come along and just click Aviz tiles and get my tiles on there. Simple.


That's definitely not as good looking as the new stuff you have - with your colour schemes and your edge tiles etc. amazing.

But who in the hell and how in the hell does anyone make roofing in the way you have in your preview video?

I mean, how many extra steps does it take to do it that way?

Or am I missing something, can someone explain it to me?

How do you make efficient angled roofing quickly, using splines?

I mean, I tried drawing a spline in the side view and editing it, and using "copy connect" to extend it the full width - but of course, that screws up the rotation/angle of the model so the tilesdon't appear properly.

So I would be interested to hear from anyone at Itoo, on how they do it, or how they consulted with anyone in the industry to see how they work - because I am suspecting right now, that no one did.

I think you guys make the tile sustem, and gave no thought to it's part of a work flow.

I think you want us to manually rotate and adjust splines and adjust them - bit bit bt, slowly.

And I'm just amazed that you have wasted this once in a lifecycle opportunity to make this product amazing.



edit: and none of the slate tiles have verges on them. What the hell?







« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 07:33:10 PM by mynewcat »

FC1888

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2017, 01:22:57 AM »
Very quick and messy demo of how I tile an L shaped roof, with Railclone. I normally create my roof from a roof plan or by extrusion as you are doing.. I work with AutoCAD drawings 99% of the time

Anyway, watch this and please read the text below the video, where I try to explain certain things, especially NOT WELDING VERTICES, after attaching splines

I think Railclone is the greatest at tiling a roof, far more advanced that ATiles or any of the others. Yes it takes a while to get used to how to optimise your workflow and I am sure someone will have a better way to do it.. but this works for me.

NOTE, you may need to occasionally select the splines for certain roof planes, and reverse them, because the tiles appear upside down, but since I started doing my roofing this way, I have not had to do that very often

So here's my quick and dirty demo.. hope it helps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTlsGp8mCr8

I have worked on many a roof and I have never seen verges on a slate roof. In fact I have rarely seen a verge of any kind, except for metal roofing. For a slate roof, you cover it with tiles, you place tiles along the ridge and hip tiles if you have a hipped roof... but this verge idea not only looks wrong, it is wrong. At the edge of the slate roof, you should see the edges of the tiles and with clay tiles a bed of mortar. See the examples of slate roofing attached... no verges.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 03:05:29 AM by FC1888 »

Paul Roberts

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2017, 01:04:47 PM »
We're sorry that you're not satisfied with the clipping procedures in RailClone 3, we're always grateful for feedback but I'd like to explain why we made these choices.

In the core of the program, RailClone unavoidably requires splines to create closed arrays, and actually we did evaluate the idea of extracting them  automatically from faces for RailClone 3. Unfortunately in our tests there were far too many issues with problematic splines when the roofs geometry was not created correctly that could cause multiple issues with RailClone. Instead we prefer a method as described by FC1888 where the splines are visible in the scene so they can be easily edited to remove problematic vertices or reverse the spline if necessary.

To speed up their creation I am adapting a script that I'll release with a future tutorial. There's a little preview here (I've used RC here for the roof geometry - but you can create it however you please).



I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any further questions.

Many Thanks,

Paul
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 01:43:00 PM by Paul Roberts »
Paul Roberts
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FC1888

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2017, 04:50:45 PM »
That script certainly looks very handy Paul and although I am more than happy creating roofing the way I am doing it now, for much more complicated roofing, especially if you are wanting to cover several buildings, this script would certainly be very useful and I look forward to giving it a try along with viewing the tutorial. Hopefully you will make it compatible with all versions of Max currently supported by Railclone 3.

I think there are many, like myself who have struggled sometimes, figuring out how a particular style works.. but I for one, once I got it nailed down, found it a dream to put roofing together.

mynewcat

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 05:38:35 PM »
Thanks everyone for the very handy replies.

Firstly, with regards to tile types - yes, you are correct, slate tiles do not have a verge - but there are flat plane tiles that do. Similar to the redland type, but more flat.

Like this:

http://www.jjc.contractors/Data/Sites/1/media/rb-74455-1.jpg

http://jbhouserenovations.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/3_122_e.jpg

http://www.russellrooftiles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Moray-1.png

Now, with regards to the making of the tiles - I have followed the tips above and managed to adapt my workflow a little bit - obviously there are more steps this way, but hopefully in the end it will balance itself out.

With the workflow I described before - I mentioned I would draw the roof sofit/fascia in a side view and extrude along - and then boolean in the holes for skylights - (see attached image).

So what happens then is I select the top face, convert the edges into lines and then export the lines - and that mostly works ok.

Is there any way your script would be able to convert that into a properly oriented line shape.... or more precisely, can your script work with holes better - because there is always goign to be a need for velux windows etc.




JTP Vis

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 06:23:51 PM »
When I do roof tiles or slates (in version 2) I tend to create my splines from scratch as it's quite quick anyway:

Isolate the roof base object (geometry you show above)
Create: Shapes: Rectangle tool, and check the Autogrid checkbox
Use the vertex snap and hover over one of the corners of the surface you want to create the RC for, making sure the curser is within the surface area, and that the gizmo is aligned to the x-y of the surface. Finish you first rectangle.
Before you create the second rectangle, un-check the "start new shape" box on the command panel, then create the rectangles for the skylights, and they should become part of the original rectangle. When you've finished, apply your raillclone to the shape.

We do that all the time, and for me it's much quicker than making it from the edges of the roof object, and it's already aligned correctly.

Hope that works for you,

Bill

TL1895

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 02:41:51 PM »
I have a problem using the preset tiles with a shingled roof, that has a sweep/kick-out curve down near the eave.
It seems to work fine, except for the curves part.  If I assign the surface, the whole roof moves out of alignment and crazy geometry deformation happens at the edges.
And even using a non-curved roof, the clipped edges do crazy things...Any ideas are really appreciated.
It doesn't get better or worse using fresh splines that are properly aligned with the surface.

Thanks OP, for starting this thread.
Thanks in advance,
TL1895
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 02:47:35 PM by TL1895 »

Michal Karmazín

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 03:45:45 PM »
Hi,

To work correctly, the RailClone object should be entirely enclosed by the boundaries of the surface. If the RailClone object overlaps a boundary, unwanted deformation can occur. Making the surface slightly larger (for example by using the Edit Polygons > Outline & Inset tools) should avoid any unwanted deformations.

Best regards,

TL1895

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2017, 05:31:41 PM »
Hi Michal,
That seemed to help out; thanks again

PD2965

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2017, 08:51:23 PM »
Hi Paul,

Is the RC extract splines script now available? I've had a good look through the forums but I can't see it kicking around.

It would be great to use this, as we've just moved to the new presets and as previously discussed the RC Paneller script is now redundant for the new styles.

Cheers Luke

We're sorry that you're not satisfied with the clipping procedures in RailClone 3, we're always grateful for feedback but I'd like to explain why we made these choices.

In the core of the program, RailClone unavoidably requires splines to create closed arrays, and actually we did evaluate the idea of extracting them  automatically from faces for RailClone 3. Unfortunately in our tests there were far too many issues with problematic splines when the roofs geometry was not created correctly that could cause multiple issues with RailClone. Instead we prefer a method as described by FC1888 where the splines are visible in the scene so they can be easily edited to remove problematic vertices or reverse the spline if necessary.

To speed up their creation I am adapting a script that I'll release with a future tutorial. There's a little preview here (I've used RC here for the roof geometry - but you can create it however you please).

<iframe width="800" height="450" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fjv7E_3XrDE?rel=0&showinfo=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


I hope that helps, please let me know if you have any further questions.

Many Thanks,

Paul

mynewcat

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2017, 04:43:23 PM »
Seconded. Where is this script? we'd like to use it!

Terri Brown

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2017, 09:28:43 AM »
Thirded...if that's even a word. Script anywhere to be found?

Paul Roberts

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Re: Very disappointed in the rooftiles implementation
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2017, 09:39:31 AM »
Hi, We'll be releasing a roofing tutorial very soon (probably on Monday). An updated version of the script will be available in that download.

Thanks!

Paul
Paul Roberts
iToo Software